Slidge - XMPP gateways - 2025-02-16

Peter, deuill might have meant that any new connected device, be it the app for smartphone or desktop, is considered by WA as _primary_ therefore never gets untied and doesn't lose connection with the ''host'' — no matter if it's switched on or off.

To make slidged wa2xmpp accounts continuously work we still need to open official WA at least once in a fortnight.

https://emevth.no-ip.biz/file_share/kcNPhyJDJUQUhWshSO3gn4lg/zb2rhYdi1D4KtLBa31RqzGYXziSArdGa9Mox7i5jz69j7SAnr.jpg

Say hello to my new lover

65 kmh

😎🤞🤣💪

> nicoco: If you wish I can try registering for you using a genuine iPhone, that will probably work and then you can try to overtake the number back using the WhatsApp message OTP instead of the phone verification. Thanks for the offer but I have a stock android at hand too. ↺

nicoco pushed 6 commit(s) to slidge - fix(avatar): detached instance error on startup (nicoco) - compat(cheogram): allow group creation (nicoco) - style(commitlint): add 'compat' and 'cfix' headers (nicoco) - fix(avatar): do not crash on startup if component avatar is unavailable (nicoco) - fix(avatar): do not attempt to read content of failed downloads (nicoco) https://codeberg.org/slidge/slidge/compare/3bd3b11d9..044cce6b2

What is conpat?

A workaround for a cheogram bug that we'll remove once cheogram fixes it

Hi, good morning everyone

I'm wondering: I use the Debian packages at the moment

And I don't want to do the work to switch over to podman

Is it best to stick to the packages or to switch to pipx?

gllmhyt: just use docker

Using podman or docker is the same for me. I don't like it and I don't want to switch to it 😉

(like, a whole new brain gymnastics to learn, for the (t)rusty ol' server I manage, is kinda too much)

> Using podman or docker is the same for me. I don't like it and I don't want to switch to it 😉 With docker you will never have package issues .. compile issues ..just run and enjoy ↺

Nothing complicated to learn about

What's wrong with the debain package? I use it too

Works

Oh, nothing wrong, just wondering if it's recommended

AFAIK PIP/Wheel, Debian, and Docker/Podman are all supported methods of installation

If any of these doesn't work, we should/will fix

OK thank you 🙂

Debian is a bit awkward because there are official slidge and slidge-matridge packages in debian main (testing and unstable), and we also provide a different slidge package (bundling all working bridge).

Also builds aren't automated anymore for this one, I need to move the thing to codeberg too.

https://slidge.im is missing links to slidgnal, slidcord, and sleamdge

Also, you could sort the slidges from best-working to least best-working, for example like the sorting here https://www.nicoco.fr/blog/2024/04/09/slidge-first-release/#slidge-legacy-modules

And a minor note: the codeberg repos for skidge and matridge (and slidge) are missing the slidge label: https://codeberg.org/explore/repos?q=slidge&topic=1

slidgnal is completely broken now, but slidcord and sleamdge should be added yes

the reason they aren't is because deuill worked on the landing page before they were moved to codeberg :)

I'll add the labels

thanks

The website is https://codeberg.org/slidge/pages if you want to do some HTML 👀

You could also add a favicon for https://slidge.im

> Debian is a bit awkward because there are official slidge and slidge-matridge packages in debian main (testing and unstable), and we also provide a different slidge package (bundling all working bridge). Oh didn't know they were in the debian repositories, I just went to the slidge.im repo ↺

if you're on stable and/or want other bridges than matridge, I'd say our repo is better.

I am considering moving my server to Arch because I might love to live dangerously

But yeah, debian stable atm

ideally someone could look at how slidge-matridge is packaged and do the rest ^^

The package has been made by debacle@movim.eu

Yes, cool dude, he's often around ;)

Re slidgnal: I think there's two approaches with presage: write Python binding for presage, or write Rust bindings for slidge.

approach 2 sounds awkward because it would make more sense for slidge core to be written in high perf rust with bindings in other languages, but hey, it sounds fun anyway!

Also I suspect there are more use cases for a good python lib for signal than there are easy to use rust libs for various crappy silos.

Are you suggesting rewriting slide in Rust? 🚀

So probably investing time for python bindings for presage is interesting outside of slidge too

> Are you suggesting rewriting slide in Rust? 🚀 well, once xmpp-rs and the rest is top notch and, small detail, I understand the first thing about rust, why not? xD ✏ ↺

Which features are you still missing from xmpp-rs?

I was kidding, the "small detail" about me not understanding much of rust is actually the reason why that won't happen. It would be super cool if someone did a slidge-equivalent in rust, though :)

So `aiosignald.SignaldAPI` runs its own event loop or whatever in background, and dispatches async events via methods like handle_IncomingMessage, right? Essentially, you could say that it's based on async callbacks.

Hugo: I think it's the same event loop. Most of aiosignald is generated from the schema https://signald.org/protocol.json

nicoco pushed 2 commit(s) to slidge - feat: customisable component name and welcome message (nicoco) - docs(config): grammar (nicoco) https://codeberg.org/slidge/slidge/compare/044cce6b2..3c69945ca

nicoco, wanna work on it together?

It is tempting but probably a recipe for a burnout (from me), especially since I start a new job (the kind that pays for food and rent and boring stuff) very soon…

Right, not its own, the same event loop. Presage is async too, and pyo3 allows running rust async jobs in python's asyncio event loop.

So I think that the bindings could expose a function to start the task that handles events both ways.

Presage does keep its own message store. I think for our use we can trim it as soon as messages are relayed to the XMPP gateway, yes?

yes, 1:1 message archives are handled by the XMPP server, and group archives are handled by slidge core

Hugo, I had no idea you'd be interested in looking into this, this may have been a good fit for a google summer of code thing, but I think it's too late now :(

I can't promise I'll have the time to see the whole thing through. It's definitely interesting tho.

Anyway, if there are presage python bindings, I'm willing to do the work of rewriting slidgnal for it (unless you want to do both obv)

The slidgnal part would be much faster if done by someone already familiar with the codebase and with slidge.

yup, that's me lol

but having someone try to use slidge the lib with no prior knowledge would probably yield some interesting feedback about counter-intuitive or awkward or surprising parts of its API (spoiler alert: there are all of those)

I'm not that excited about Python these days (though I don't hate it and it's been my career for like a decade). Go and Rust have spoiled me with static types and development tools that catch silly mistakes :P

I'll peek further at presage; I don't think the bindings should be that tricky, but I've definitely said that before

Not too hyped about presage having 540 dependencies 🙄

SavagePeanut had a look at it a while ago (he's MIA now) and said the tricky part is that presage is designed as single user, so it might require some extra plumbing to support multiuser use. maybe just a matter of pointing to different "stores" or something like that

however most slidge deployments are probably single user, so some people would probably use it anyway :)

> Which features are you still missing from xmpp-rs? Can it do OMEMO? I would be super interesting to have gateways that can do e2e encryption (and then you run those gateways at home or something). ↺

(I know I would)

> https://codeberg.org/slidge/matridge/issues/10 I searched around and there's no icon with a solid background. Could the COMPONENT_AVATAR be a base64 encoding? ↺

> SavagePeanut had a look at it a while ago (he's MIA now) and said the tricky part is that presage is designed as single user, so it might require some extra plumbing to support multiuser use. maybe just a matter of pointing to different "stores" or something like that I missed this detail! I think that presage would expose a single-user API, and you'd need a separate async task (handling its own connection) for each user. ↺

Hugo: that does not sound like a massive problem _a priori_

about e2ee gateway, have a look at https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/gateway-relayed-encryption.html

would be super cool to have, but most likely very tricky, and you _know_ that we'll have "cryptographers" all around shitting on any implementation because "the only real thing is signal and all the rest is amateur work"

> I searched around and there's no icon with a solid background. Could the COMPONENT_AVATAR be a base64 encoding? no but it can be a path directly in the repo ↺

https://upload.postblue.info:5281/file_share/067b1f15-e7f4-7534-8bce-64a8d0eb860c/matrix.png

Here's one made with the favicon.svg

I hope [matrix] won't sue us for copyright violation or something if we include a png of their logo in the matridge repo

About it, check https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Matrix_icon.svg

more seriously, we probably want to check with debacle if the license of this [m] is compatible with debian, I don't want to make his life harder

"This logo image consists only of simple geometric shapes or text. It does not meet the threshold of originality needed for copyright protection, and is therefore in the public domain. Although it is free of copyright restrictions, this image may still be subject to other restrictions. See WP:PD § Fonts and typefaces or Template talk:PD-textlogo for more information."

oh ok cool then

gllmhyt, want to do the commits for matridge? I have a feeling you are about to become a rockstar python dev very soon

I don't even understand how to fork on codeberg x)

But yeah I can try a commit

I replied with a link to edit with the codeberg web ui on the issue about the component name

> about e2ee gateway, have a look at https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/gateway-relayed-encryption.html I feared this was headed into "just use wasm encrypters" territory. Not sure how I feel about that. ↺

OK!

La page que vous essayez d'atteindre n'existe pas ou vous n'êtes pas autorisé à la voir.

🙁

I'm trying smthing

There doesn't seem to be a usage policy on the Matrix logo yet: https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix.org/issues/2353#issuecomment-2163508975

> La page que vous essayez d'atteindre n'existe pas ou vous n'êtes pas autorisé à la voir. oh right, you need to fork in your namespace first apparently, I was hoping the link would do it all ↺

you probably need to use https://codeberg.org/slidge/matridge/fork first then the link will work?

Ah that's what I was looking for thx

«bifurcation» in French

postblue opened a pull request for matridge Fix component name https://codeberg.org/slidge/matridge/pulls/11

Writing in english, reading the UI in french while listening to a live coverage in dutch, all is good

>> about e2ee gateway, have a look at https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/gateway-relayed-encryption.html > I feared this was headed into "just use wasm encrypters" territory. Not sure how I feel about that. For now this is basically only useful for pgp, so Deltachat and some xmpp clients. ↺

Why wouldn't it work for signal too?

Hugo: I think the only 2 other options are (a) a standardized encryption and formatter scheme (not sure this the correct terminoly) or (b) XMPP clients implementing encryption used in other networks. What's wrong with "wasm encrypters" approach? (I don't know much about wasm and security and encryption in general)

https://upload.postblue.info:5281/file_share/067b1f72-13e4-7894-92de-21878429cb75/RNYpUkl4Q6eAyKO-YAeRag.jpg

https://upload.postblue.info:5281/file_share/067b1f72-15af-74e4-b631-d16d619014ea/c1jchNXFT8ulgMizhBpdOw.jpg

Neither is good, the white background without borders is an eye sore

well…

also, gajim makes all avatars round

wow you use matteridge too

I thought I was the only user lol

nicoco pushed 1 commit(s) to matridge - style: harmonise component name with other slidge-based gateways (Guillaume Hayot) https://codeberg.org/slidge/matridge/compare/0d72ce090..65640313f

The UX of framateam is so painful, yeah it was the first i configured

> nicoco pushed 1 commit(s) to matridge > - style: harmonise component name with other slidge-based gateways (Guillaume Hayot) > > https://codeberg.org/slidge/matridge/compare/0d72ce090..65640313f The description is longer than the fix :^p ↺

nicoco closed a pull request for matridge Fix component name https://codeberg.org/slidge/matridge/pulls/11

> The description is longer than the fix :^p Yes but it allowed me to check that CI on PRs and c3p0 work as intended, great! Although maybe I should add a check for the commit message in CI, but I know some people hate that sort of things and don't want to discourage contributions for something I can easily reword after the fact… ↺

So all in all, thanks gllmhyt! <3

> The UX of framateam is so painful, yeah it was the first i configured does it work well for you? I only use Inria's mattermost (a French research institute) and haven't managed yet to get to a state where I don't need to restart it every few days/week. But Inria uses authentication via gitlab and expiring tokens, I suspect most mattermost deployments are more simple. ✏ ↺

I use it read-only at the moment and it works

But I think last time I tried to send a message it failed in some capacity

OK, it just kicked me

Friends, you do realize that purple-presage is a thing?

you weren't supposed to do that, man

https://github.com/hoehermann/purple-presage

Just saying, maybe making Slidpurple would be a more sane approach.

gllmhyt, oh well, thanks for the feedback. do not hesitate to open tickets! enjoy your mud thing ;)

c3p0-slidge published a release for slidge v0.2.5 https://codeberg.org/slidge/slidge/releases/tag/v0.2.5

It would alsoAlso, you wouldn't have to rust for that I guess.

> Friends, you do realize that purple-presage is a thing? It does not support the modern™ features supported by Slidge https://github.com/hoehermann/purple-presage?tab=readme-ov-file#missing ↺

Peter, rust to C to python through libpurple does not exactly sound sane to me :)

you weren't supposed to do that, man

nicoco: c'est retombé en marche

https://upload.postblue.info:5281/file_share/067b1fbf-155c-7a88-a74f-4af9a390f410/_Mx7JHNvThmzOXXrXMLCeQ.jpg

after a restart or not even required?

Unregistered, restarted, the whole lot

Lets see when it fails again

nicoco: Yeah well it is bullshit from a technical perspective, I thought more like to protect more people from becoming rusty.

Also, it wouldn't be that bad because while it is a technical disaster to have those 3 languages in this case, it would also open the world for a teams bridge.

I agree that a slidge-purple thing would be nice to have to benefit from all the reverse-engineering work the pidgin/libpurple folks do. But part of the motivation for starting slidge was to enjoy modern chat features that libpurple does not provide. Also, I think XMPP can already be seen a "chat API" and I think it's nice to avoid going through the libpurple layer. About MS Teams I have bad news, I'm no longer interested in working on it myself as I got fired from the job where they used it. 🤷‍♂️

slurple. That's a good name.

s/seen a/seen as a/

https://emevth.no-ip.biz/upload/sWQHh153IyrtFDLDP6bvGcVo/chat_image.png

readme on codeberg shows still docker.io

which tag? codeberg.org/slidge/slidge-whatsapp: ? master ?

oops, will fix. it's codeberg.org/slidge/slidge-whatsapp

tag?

tag :latest by default, latest tagged release

latest? Breaking the habit ? Breaking the bridge?

or :main if you are crazy in your head

main is bloody edge ?

bleeding edge yes

I love t he bleeding edge

hope you implemented some nice breaking stuff

like .... deactivated messaging

or.... deactivate ansering :P

nicoco: I'll review your change tonight, thanks for pushing. I think I might pick up a SIM card to test groups etc. with as well

Group affiliations and communities

yes, affiliations changes in groups are broken, well they don't show up until restart

> oops, will fix. it's codeberg.org/slidge/slidge-whatsapp so basicall the url is always: codeberg.org/slidge/BRIDGE ? ↺

I'd say do not mess with changing affiliations until deuill reviews what he just said he'd do :)

> yes, affiliations changes in groups are broken, well they don't show up until restart I saw bleeding pacth / fix ↺

I'm the one who broke it, so blame me. It might have been what caused my spam flag (it got lifted so it's not that bad)

so latest is always the way to not break the neck ?

well, in an ideal work, yes

well.. we are dealing with you .. maaster of breaking stuff so ....

ill pull latest :)

if it breaks... je vais de tenir responsable

but in practice, right now :latest has this affiliation change issue that might have caused my temporary ban, although it may also not be related (it might have been adding a non-contact to a group that triggered it, we'll probably never know)

is that the fix to go ?

> nicoco: I'll review your change tonight, thanks for pushing. I think I might pick up a SIM card to test groups etc. with as well well I'm the one that fucked it up so thank you for not firing me! ↺

https://emevth.no-ip.biz/upload/whXKC6JMwVJ8py0ZGLSQDemP/chat_image.png

don't wanna get banned like an idiot on wa :P

ThUnD3r|Gr33n, yes you can pull that tag if you want to experiment with adding and removing members to group at your own risk, please report back to tell us if it works :)

fuck off no! I will not do anything but just make groups stuff in legacy app :P

let's try and break and get bannnneeedddd

FULL RISK

it's updating the docker image .....

nicoco opened a pull request for slidge-whatsapp docs(readme): fix container repo https://codeberg.org/slidge/slidge-whatsapp/pulls/17

I fear my wa spare phone might take fire and shoots down a Starlink satellite

:P

I registered on codeberg but cannot distribute... may i also have the right to make PR ?

anybody can make pull requests, what did you try and where did it fail?

codeberg.org/slidge/matridge NOT FOUND?

Works for me

i think i fucked up :P

Well, I guess it depends on if you're talking about a docker image or the codeberg repo. I tapped on that URL and it worked :)

i use portainer and did not use advanced mode to change from docker.io to codeberg

nicoco pushed 2 commit(s) to matridge - docs(e2ee): mention that it is broken (nicoco) - chore: update lockfile (nicoco) https://codeberg.org/slidge/matridge/compare/65640313f..35b99524f

hello

how do i get the slidgram binary ?

in slidgram repo, i did: ``` . ./venv/bin/activate pip install . ```

it only creates a slidge binary but no slidgram binary

slidgram is still on slidge 0.2.2 iso 0.2.4 ?

I am shocked

BUG or FEATURE? trying to join a WHatsapp group via adhoc will end up in: Unknow XMPP address.. with normal commands i can jin.

> Hugo: I think the only 2 other options are (a) a standardized encryption and formatter scheme (not sure this the correct terminoly) or (b) XMPP clients implementing encryption used in other networks. What's wrong with "wasm encrypters" approach? (I don't know much about wasm and security and encryption in general) wasm runs on its own VM/interpreter, so now your clients either need to bundle a whole wasm runtime, or execute one (assuming that it is pre-installed) to encrypt messages. It's not terrible, but it does put a burden on client devs. ↺

procrastinator, the easiest thing would be to install using pipx: ``` pipx install slidgram==0.0.0.dev0 \ --pip-args='--extra-index-url https://codeberg.org/api/packages/slidge/pypi/simple/ ``` If you want to edit the source code, you'll find it under $HOME/.local/share/pipx/venvs/slidgram/lib/python3.1?/site-packages/slidgram/

Since python is an interpreted language, editing the code and restarting slidgram is all you need for your changes to take effect

has someone a sip server for testing ?

lissine, thanks! i actually want to understand the build process and thus wanted to know how it works --- previously i just did pip install . and that created a slidgram binary however, i am curious about the other steps that's needed now

ok, looks like ```python3 -m slidgram -c config``` is what's supposed to work

there's a slidge binary which is just ``` from slidgram import main ... sys.exit(main()) ```

ok i'm dumb, it's just slidge -c config or, if your config doesn't define legacy-module, slidge --legacy-module slidgram -c config

does signal work again ?? did not follow up

No

... found the anser

what the henk is going on.. we need fixing the workd !

Be change you want in the world!

Signal is (in)famously hostile to third party clients

signald, as far as I can tell, was basically done by trying to tease out the networking portion of the signal android client and that's not very sustainable

i agree...

I think that presage relies on some of the same rust libs used by Signal upstream.

Which makes it _slightly_ more sustainable.

When did they start using rust? Does it coincide with signald's death?

Of course, I never got signald to work right anyway

In theory they might have great crypto, but their client is electron crap built with binaries from a bunch of various sources. It doesn't even encrypt credentials in a keyring (the claim that the problem is "impossible to solve", despite other clients having done so for years).

They invented the great crypto. But everyone else is using it now so I'm not sure if there's a clear advantage to signal. And I'm still bitter about them dumping e2ee SMS

Even though I don't use SMS anymore

Everyone else uses this great crypto and then uploads backups of your conversatoins plaintext onto google drive or something like that.

If only people used xmpp more

> more seriously, we probably want to check with debacle if the license of this [m] is compatible with debian, I don't want to make his life harder I could check, if the logo is maybe already used and packaged in Debian somewhere, i.e. as part of one of the packaged Matrix clients. In this case, I assume that any copyright questions are already answered :-)) ↺